In David Fincher’s movie, we can see many of the ideas that
Freud presents in his book, Civilizations
and Its Discontents. Some of the
major ideas that Freud argued were the psychological ideas of the ego, superego,
and the id. The id represents our animalistic instincts and the attainment of
our desires and pleasures. He introduces
the superego as a completely contradictory part of our minds. It represents the rules and regulations put
for by society and more so as a sense of complete control. The ego is basically the battleground between
these two. It attempts to obtain a sense
of balance: obtaining as much pleasure as possible, while staying with the constraints
of societal rules. In this movie, which I’d
rather not name because the first and second rules both state that I cannot
talk about it, different characters are introduced that are portrayed in such
extremes as to represent the id, ego, and superego. For the purposes of this entry, we’ll refer
to this David Fincher movie as: “the movie” and the characters in this movie as:
Tyler and Jack. In the movie, Tyler was
technically not another character, but rather a manifestation of Jack’s id. I guess you Tyler could say “I am Jack’s id.” The character of Jack was represented as the
superego. He was a character that was
seen as bound by all the rules of society and adhered closely to them as well
as a character that sought control. This
distinction was made very clearly by one particular scene in the movie. In this scene, Tyler is driving and he lets
go of the wheel and just drives. Jack,
for obvious reasons, was greatly worried by this and immediately attempts to
take control of the car. I found this
scene very symbolic in that Tyler was portraying a state of complete lack of
control, while Jack cares much about obtaining control of the vehicle. Although, this was rather difficult to
conceptualize, I feel that Jack also represents the ego, because he was really
both Tyler and Jack. Instead of the
traditional struggle between the superego and the id, he switched between two
personalities, each portraying a single psychological state.
I guess this is getting kind of difficult to explain with a
movie that I can’t even talk about, so I think it would be better to look at
another movie that also has these Freudian ideas. Luckily Freud is everywhere. Even in….
In Christopher Nolan’s The
Dark Knight, we see some very similar Freudian ideas being presented. In this movie, Batman attempts to maintain
order and justice in Gotham City by defeating the Joker. In my opinion, the character of the Joker, as
portrayed in this movie, is the complete embodiment of the id. The Joker is chaotic and aggressive. Although he has plan, he acts very
instinctively and cares nothing for the rules and constraints of society. In fact, throughout the movie he attempts to
get rid of all the rules. He acts on his
desire, which in this case was to put the world into chaos and get rid of all
the rules. This can especially be seen
with his interactions with batman. Batman doesn't kill. The Joker knows this and
often tries to get batman to break this rule.
His complete disregard for the regulations and restraints of society can
be seen with his blatant breaking of rules.
He robs a bank which is the most typical crime. Also, when he gets the money from the
criminals of Gotham, he just burns it. He doesn't care about the importance
that society puts on money. Batman, on
the other hand, can be seen as a character that strongly exhibits his
superego. He has a strong sense of rules
and takes control of the justice in Gotham City. He never breaks his rule of not killing, even
though it would have been easier to do so.
Also he does not exhibit any signs of pleasure or desire. Although he had feelings for Rachel, I would
say that is part of Bruce Wayne’s character and not Batman’s. In the clip below we see how the Joker is
trying to get society to ignore their superego and express their id. He make many Freudian critiques of society.
Also,
You definitely grasped the idea if superego, ego, and ID. If we were to give into our desires, chaos would run wild like the Joker in your example. Our civilization basically runs on superego because we don't really see radical events happening like the Joker caused in the movies. So you are right when it comes to superego vs. desire. Desire is chaotic and maybe dangerous if we let it run us while superego keeps stability and maybe falls into the conformist ways since we see civilization as protected and routine.
ReplyDeleteAwesome comparison with Freud and Batman. Fight Club is a such a deep movie it's difficult to talk about in contextual terms so using Batman as another example to help the reader understand what you are talking about is really a good idea. THe Joker does embody the id but what about Bane? I feel as if all the batman movies have at least one character that is the id.
ReplyDeleteNice sentence steal from Potts’ lecture. It has good imagery. Haha ***** Club. Haha “the movie.” Totally tricked me that they were one in the same. I think Jack is ego too if I had to answer a test question. I wanted a cool pic of the world’s greatest detective but that works too. Yeah it is definitely more like a hulk/nerd comparison with Jack and the boxer like that one guy talked about one time on this class blog. It has less to do with the traditional angel/devil floating guys flapping around the dude’s head who want him to either steal the homeless cat or let it fend for itself or something rather. Like the jokes. They were so good I didn’t laugh the first time but only because I had to reread the sentences to understand them before laughing out loud. NO! Freud is not in Batman, Batman is in Freud because he’s nananananannana nanannananananna BATMAN!!! I apologize in advance for not counting the nanas. Big editing mistakes. Not “in this movie,” more like “in Batman’s movie.” I think Batman does have “pleasure and desire” like thrashing criminal scum, sending them to Arkham Asylum so they can escape again and kill more people, then proceeding to thrash them again for fun. Oh I agree though that Batman does not show his "pleasure and desire." It is kind of funny though because you would think that maybe one of the 576 of Batman’s worst enemies would have caught on and left Gotham after having every bone in their bodies broken by Batman for the 38th time (Batman does NOT kill!)…P.S. JK you aren’t supposed to say the F word!! (I got your back this time JK). I wonder what Joker's superego is? I guess he does at least conform to society by dressing and speaking in English, even if sometimes in subtitles.
ReplyDeleteGreat comparison from Fight Club to Batman, I had not thought of Freud in Batman before. I completely agree with you that Batman is exactly like the superego and that the Joker is the personification of the ID. Great blog, you grabbed my interest once you brought Batman into this and kept it.
ReplyDeleteIt was awesome that you were able to find the use of Freud's ideas in Batman. It is true that such ideas are interwoven in many movies and books, but it is not easy to identify them because they are behaviors that many people take for granted: there are some people in society who are driven by their desires and other who have such moral states that their superego has taken complete control over them. Anyways, you definitely made a strong case for arguing why the Joker is driven by his id and the batman by his superego? Who would be the ego in this movie? Maybe the police? Or Harvey Dent?
ReplyDelete